HELP !! -- AVP Live Use [continued]
Recently acquired a used AVP-1, which we bought for our lead singer as he's a little "pitchy" in his upper range. [Who isn't?].
While, I'm not the soundguy in the band, I am the "tech" so I'm the one that gets to figure all this out ! My challenge has been setting the unit up for live use to where it doesn't produce a distorted output signal. Here's what's been tried so far as we've found the user manual to be very limited !!
1. Use the AVP as an "insert" in the vocal channel.
2. Use the AVP as an external device, fed via an AUX send and use 2nd channel as return path.
Ok.. so... on #1 !
On my console [A&H GL2400] when using the insert, the channel trim [gain] level controls the signal strength going the 'inserted' device - the AVP. At normal mic input trim levels [eg: SM58 or beta58] the input level to the AVP is too high [distorted] and hits 0dB on the AVP signal meter. We tried turning down the "digital input" level [what the heck does that do anyway?], but that had no noticeable impact.
OK. So, back off the channel trim and get a good signal level. Processing level inside the AVP is now good, but the return level to the channel is NON-EXISTENT !.. there's no headroom on the vocal channel, fader must be up ALL the way. So, bump up the output gain on the AVP [+10dB or more] and there still not enough signal being returned to give me any usable headroom to sit the lead vox in the mix. Added in the compressor at default settings and boosted output gain on compressor by +3dB. Still not enough output gain. OK.. so now we go back and increase the input level... and distortion [again] !!!
We have found this method unusable for live applications. We have also tested this method on other consoles, and have experienced similar results when using it as a channel insert.
on #2 !
So we tried another approach. On one (smaller) console we tried, we used an AUX send and fed the consoles AUX return from the AVP output. With both channel and AUX send master levels, we had full control over the input signal and the unit worked fine. We took this to our console [has no aux returns, but 6 sends] and tried to duplicate, using 2nd channel as "AUX" return from AVP [like our Reverb unit]. Signal TO AVP was fine. Even with the return channel trim all the way up there was no return signal. We boosted AVP output, added compression [yada, yada], but still no return signal. WEIRD !! Nothing coming back at all !!
So we turned it off -- as its basically unusable for live work with everything we've tried !
What are we doing wrong ?
Is the unit defective and in need of repair ?
TIA,
Steve
While, I'm not the soundguy in the band, I am the "tech" so I'm the one that gets to figure all this out ! My challenge has been setting the unit up for live use to where it doesn't produce a distorted output signal. Here's what's been tried so far as we've found the user manual to be very limited !!
1. Use the AVP as an "insert" in the vocal channel.
2. Use the AVP as an external device, fed via an AUX send and use 2nd channel as return path.
Ok.. so... on #1 !
On my console [A&H GL2400] when using the insert, the channel trim [gain] level controls the signal strength going the 'inserted' device - the AVP. At normal mic input trim levels [eg: SM58 or beta58] the input level to the AVP is too high [distorted] and hits 0dB on the AVP signal meter. We tried turning down the "digital input" level [what the heck does that do anyway?], but that had no noticeable impact.
OK. So, back off the channel trim and get a good signal level. Processing level inside the AVP is now good, but the return level to the channel is NON-EXISTENT !.. there's no headroom on the vocal channel, fader must be up ALL the way. So, bump up the output gain on the AVP [+10dB or more] and there still not enough signal being returned to give me any usable headroom to sit the lead vox in the mix. Added in the compressor at default settings and boosted output gain on compressor by +3dB. Still not enough output gain. OK.. so now we go back and increase the input level... and distortion [again] !!!
We have found this method unusable for live applications. We have also tested this method on other consoles, and have experienced similar results when using it as a channel insert.
on #2 !
So we tried another approach. On one (smaller) console we tried, we used an AUX send and fed the consoles AUX return from the AVP output. With both channel and AUX send master levels, we had full control over the input signal and the unit worked fine. We took this to our console [has no aux returns, but 6 sends] and tried to duplicate, using 2nd channel as "AUX" return from AVP [like our Reverb unit]. Signal TO AVP was fine. Even with the return channel trim all the way up there was no return signal. We boosted AVP output, added compression [yada, yada], but still no return signal. WEIRD !! Nothing coming back at all !!
So we turned it off -- as its basically unusable for live work with everything we've tried !
What are we doing wrong ?
Is the unit defective and in need of repair ?
TIA,
Steve
Views: 89
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by mnml_music on -
Welcome to the board, Steve.
Seems like you're setting everything up correctly. There might be some issues with adjusting the Digital Input and forgetting to put it back to its original state after switching setups. It's probably a good idea to try a system reset to see if it helps resolve the issue.
1. Power off the unit
2. Press and hold the master/setup button on the front panel while powering on the unit
3. Turn the data wheel to position 8 (position 8 is 7 clockwise clicks of the knob if you are unable to read any characters on the screen)
4. Press any button (re-initialization will take just about 20 seconds)
5. After 20 seconds have passed, turn the data wheel to position 9 (one more click clockwise)
6. Press the master/setup button twice to reboot unit.
If this doesn't resolve the issue and you're fairly confident that your setup is routed correctly then contact tech support for a repair. You might want to consider talking with the original owner of the unit to see if he/she knew of any issues. Hopefully they wouldn't have sold you a unit not telling that it needed repair. In any case, you can reach tech support at techsupport@antarestech.com
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Permalink Reply by Steve Oldridge on -
I reset the unit and tested on my home mixer [Mackie]. Seems to work OK, tho' its obvious the prior owner had some fairly extensive mods saved under the default patch names.
Will try it at the gig tonight and report back !
thanks
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Permalink Reply by Steve Oldridge on
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OK.. well it seems to work - tho' we had a few issues, namely with using the presets which have mic modeling turned on, and we definitely do NOT need the artifacts that were produced from it. So here's the hookup as we ended up with as the "insert" method still ended up distorted.
Out from AUX4 [set to PRE] on channel 1 (CH1) to AVP1, with fader set to minimum [i.e. not used]. Input level to AVP1 controlled via AUX levels on CH1 and AUX4 master level... so lots of input control. NO gain adjustments made to "digital input level" on AVP1. Used "Male Vocal" setting, with mic modeling off.
Return from AVP1 to Channel 2 (CH2), set to "Line" with trim adjusted for optimal return gain. EQ was used on CH2 and fader on CH2 used to mix processed vocal.
Stage monitors were fed from AUX feeds on CH1, so no effects from AVP1 went there. AUX sends on CH-2 were all off.
This works, maybe due to the "reset', but this method is definitely going to require a learning curve on the part of our soundguy. Being used as a serial "effect" gives us the flexibility of routing multiple vocal channels thru the AVP [albeit one at a time]. Lead vocal levels will always on CH2, and any of our 4 vocal channels can be routed thru the AVP1 by turning up the AUX4 send level for that vocal, zeroing that channels fader, then zeroing the AUX4 level on the prior vocal channel and adjusting its fader to get unprocessed vox into the mix.
So far so good... I'll wait until we get a few more gigs under our belt with this method to see how it goes.....
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Permalink Reply by Steve Oldridge on
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We seem to have the input/output levels squared away. We tried to introduce the mic modeling [on male vocal] and it added some 'nasty' artifacts to the voice, so we killed that instantly. We now have an ongoing debate between the lead vocalist and the soundguy over how good he doesn't, or does sound. Singer feels like the vocals are not as rich and vibrant as they were before using the AVP. The soundguy says they ARE, and he also like the compression feature as he doesn't have to "ride the fader all night". Both have had audience feedback to support their own position.. of course !!
So we are at a standoff.
Regardless, it seems like some tweaking is needed in the EQ section of the AVP - altho' the return from it goes into a separate channel with full 4-band EQ capability.. so not sure where 'best' to fix the problem. I tend to side with the singer, but again, this is one of those 'perception' issues, that is very debatable.
Recommendations and suggested direction greatly appreciated.
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Permalink Reply by T. Gath on
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I have the same issue with my AVP when using the insert mode and I bought mine new. My Sure 58 has to be trimmed back quite a bit to clear up the nasty distortion. I tried trimming the input level using the AVP input gain but when I do, 1. There is not enough signal back to the mixer and 2. it is sometimes still distorted. I can't even use my beta-58 because it is just to hot.
I will try routing through an aux channel as described by Steve but anytime complexity is increased in the setup so is stress and potential for mistakes so I would prefer to use the insert.
Any help on this issue will be appreciated. I hope to be able to use my beta 58.....
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